Serve and Volley

Re: Jocko is very dangerous, old friend.....

tommyboy — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:41:40 GMT

Haas is better than Muster in all facets of the game. Really? Then explain Muster's 2-0 head to head record against Haas which includes a win on hard courts. Muster has one grand slam, while Haas zero, and that should stay that way. Muster has seven Masters 1000s, while Haas one. Haas peaked at number 2 in the rankings, while Muster peaked at one.

Re: Jocko is very dangerous, old friend.....

tommyboy — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:33:37 GMT

Wimbledon 2007.

If it was Nadal's fault that he mishandled his play during threats of rain, then how come players on his side of the draw were not ahead of him, because they supposedly had opportunities to handle the play during threat of rain better than Rafa. They did not handle it better because it is unrealistic and unfair to expect such a thing from any player.

I know is this: on the day of Nadal's 4th round match, Federer was allowed to even start his quarter final match. That should not have happened, and this was certainly unfair in the scheduling. Federer did not finish his match under threat of rain either. Hmm! How come he did not? He was supposed to handle anything, so efficient that he can even beat the rain. Nadal managed to finish his 4th round match and Federer did not finish his quarterfinal that he really should not have been allowed to play. It was good that Fed had to wait the next day to play his quarterfinal because at least Nadal was given a fighting chance in days to come, though Nadal had to play his quarterfinal too the day after winning his 4th round match.

I personally believe that if Wimbledon did not religiously follow this No Play Rule on Middle Sunday, then the scheduling mess would not have been as bad as it was. Because the Middle Sunday was clear skies, and that would have been the ideal day for Nadal to have finished his 3rd round match against Soderling. To have nobody on Nadal's half in the 4th round of Wimbledon on Monday of the 2nd week is a joke, when this could have easily have been prevented with Nadal and Soderling playing the day before on Middle Sunday. Sometimes exceptions have to be made, and this year was the time to do so. To make matters worse, players on Federer's half got to play their fourth round matches on the 2nd Monday when Nadal's own half had to catch up and play the 3rd round matches.

And about the Australian Open, and Nadal having 48 hours of rest, well Federer had 72 hours rest. So Federer was in a more favorable situation. In a match-up of near-equals, the better rested player should win. That is why many tennis experts consider Nadal's win over Federer at the Australian Open 2009, just remarkable. Verdasco even thought that the scheduling was not fair. He had no idea that Australia plays the semis on different days. He thought that it was a pity that Nadal had to play his final match after the grueling semifinal match he had just won. And that he himself would have had to do the same thing if he won instead over Nadal.

Basically Federer was better rested entering the finals of the AO 2009 and Wimbledon 2007 because of more favorable scheduling. Not because of Nadal mishandling of his matches. Nadal in this year's AO entered the semis having less court time than Fed, but his match against Verdasco was ridulous; however and fortunately his efficient handling of the 1st 5 rounds saved him energy for the last 2 matches of the tournament despite Federer having one more day of rest. Wimbledon was ridiculous in the scheduling because they should not allow both halves to play on the same day in the 2nd week, unless both halves have entered the 4th round. That did not happen in 2007 Wimbledon. Nadal's half was in the 3rd round , while Federer's half was in the 4th round on the 2nd Monday.

I will use a horse racing comparison. One of the reasons today that horses do not win the Triple Crown is that not all horses compete in all three races. So if a horse wins the first 2 legs but faces a horse(s) that only competed in one of the first two legs, the better rested horse actually has a chance to create the upset in the Belmont. This is even if there is a two week break between each of the races. I got this information indirectly from an equestrian. Basically this means to me that athletes have explosive bursts that requires rest periods between them. The longer the rest, the better the quality of the athletic explosiveness.

Re: Jocko is very dangerous, old friend.....

mal1219 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 06:32:15 GMT

Stop saying Federer has had a cakewalk of a draw until now. You are being too focussed on him playing certain names than him playing actual people who produced great tennis to reach the stages they are in.

- Karlovic (22 seed) had not lost serve the entire grass court season. Federer breaks him twice and gets through in straight sets, very impressive for a guy who bullied Tsonga (9 seed) and Verdasco (7 seed) out of the tournament.

- Soderling (13 seed) is in the form of his life, actually bullying Federer with the serve and from the baseline. The Fed still comes through in straight sets.

And now he faces Haas (24 seed) who beat Marin Cilic (11 seed), Igor Andreev (29 seed) and then goes on to beat Djokovic (4 seed) in what should have been straight sets. If the name Djokovic was so good, then why didnt he get through to the finals against a older, less fresh player? (and a relic of the Sampras era apparently) What would you consider a tough draw? Ferrero, Wawrinka, Troicki, Gulbis and Kendrick? Nadal is not in the tournament, which is not Federer's fault. Should he get through the Haas match (the bookies predict a straight sets victory for both Federer and Murray) he will still face Murray in the final. Even JMac and Boris Becker were saying Federer is in the tough part of the draw.

Re: Jocko is very dangerous, old friend.....

Scoop — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 02:47:34 GMT

That's what it is Red, he has to get his edge back. He's not being true to himself by campaigning for the Edberg Sportsmanship award. We saw at the US Open last year he is a tough feisty super intense with a chip on his shoulder kind of guy, that's when he plays his best tennis. Now he's trying to be, for whatever reason, the second coming of Stefan Edberg with all this graciousness and sportsmanship. Djokovic is at his best when he's cocky and feisty, with an in your face attitude. He played some of the best tennis we have seen this century at the Australian Open when he won it. that was marvelous stuff. Today he was a shell of himself.

Maybe he will evolve to play great tennis with this Edbergness routine that's a possibility. But it also might stifle his true nature, inhibit his true competitive character.

There was nothing wrong with Haas's shoulder, nor was there anything wrong with Muster's knee the year he won the FO. Tommyboy overscores surgeries and their after effects. If a real doctor says it, you might listen, but Tommyboy is not a real doctor, as far I know, though his brother, where ever he has disappeared to, supposedly was. (Whatever happened to the Good Dr. Gustarhymes?) I agree Haas is the more complete, more aesthetic player. Muster basically was a super mentally tough grinder who had one big year, with the aid of a soft draw (Chang in the final) he's basically a one slam wonder, like Andres Gomez, Thomas Johansson, Ivanisevic, Majoli, Moya.

Re: Jocko is very dangerous, old friend.....

redhead — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 02:19:04 GMT

Look, I'm disappointed in Djoko. He was volleying better when he had Woodforde helping him out. Haas is playing well, playing smart, and maybe he'll test Fed, but I don't think so, giving The Fed another pastry walk into the finals, but Murray will handle him this time.

T-boy, you've got to give this shoulder injury thing a rest in regards to Haas. Face it, his game is better than Muster's ever was. The guy is twice the player Muster was in all facets of the game except for grinding.

Djoko played better when he just hit the crap out of the ball and didn't use his awful-looking slice bh. He's got to get his edge back.

Re: Jocko is very dangerous, old friend.....

DMan1 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 00:05:47 GMT

tommyboy:
On the point of players having less rest than the other, I can only think of two unfair situations, and both involve Nadal: Wimbledon '07, and AO '09. The rest of the stuff I read about unfair scheduling is just plain nonsense to me.

I'm gonna harp on this...but exactly what was unfair about scheduling with Nadal at Wimbledon 2007? I mean doesn't every player control how quickly they win? Nadal had his opportunities to win his matches in a quicker fashion, and thus earn more rest. But he didn't. So there was nothing unfair at all about that situation! And no one controls the weather! Bottom line, there was absolutely nothing unfair about scheduling at Wimbledon in 2007. It's an excuse at the ready, as Nadal didn't wind up winning the tournament.

And as for Australia 2009, what was "unfair" about that? Nadal had nearly 48 hours after his semi before the final. They guy is 22 years old. Is 48 hours not enough time to recover? Maybe they should have reconvened the final after a week's time, so to be sure under the Tommyboy rules Nadal was at his absolute peak!?

Wimbledon has this very interesting quote above Centre Court:

To those who treat triumph and disaster and treat those two impostors just the same...

Rain delays aren't disaters. Hurricanes that devastate island nations are. If a young, professional tennis player can't deal with playing tennis matches on consecutive days, or if fans have expectations that conditions will be absolutely perfect every time they step on the court, this isn't the real world we're dealing with.

Now about that Djoker? Paging Redhead........

Re: Djoko is out

Peggye1 — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 23:55:52 GMT

I am not sure if he is trying to be nice or sporty but I think he may have finally got it into his head that he needs more variety in his game and a lot more heart. He looked stiff out there and Haas is a veteran who is on a hot streak in this tournament. That should have alerted Novak to be on the top on his game. Sometimes those who come up fast forget there are others coming up faster like Murray who has worked hard to improve every facet of his game including his physical improvement. Methinks this young man is in the playboy stage of tennis and this may wake him him a lot. I was struck by his lack of mobility compared to Haas who was all over the court.

GOOD PREDICTION, Lendlfan!

Iceman — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:47:58 GMT

Haas did indeed beat Djocko!

Fine prediction on your part, sir!

Re: Djoko is out

RP — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:13:16 GMT

Yes, I definitely Patrick Mac saying that about Haas - that he didn't use his volley enough. I remember that '02 Australian Open classic vs. Fed when Haas won like 8-6 in the fifth and then remember he ended up losing in 5 to Safin in the semis I believe. He will be dangerous for sure. I just think if he's missing the first serve as he did at some key moments today (end of second set and breaker) Federer will make him pay more on the second serve return than Djoker did. Also, Fed tends to play more offensively than Djoker so while Djoker tended to hang back today and Haas took full advantage, Federer can play quicker, more assertive points and pressure Haas.

Having said that though even in some of his losses he's given Fed a very tough time. Not only at the French last month, but I remember Dubai a couple of years ago, fantastic match it was like 7-5, 6-4, something like that but he had a set point int he first set and really played Federer so tough. When he uses the entire court and the variety he has the guy is so tough. I just think Fed does everything a bit better, he's been serving better (Haas has hit more double faults than any of the guys left) and to me Haas has gotta serve a high first-serve percentage or Fed will be on him. But we saw how tough Haas was on Federer on clay and clearly Haas has been playing better on grass than clay so you never know.

I do agree that sometimes Djoker doesn't channel his emotion in a positive way. He sometimes looks a bit too muted now as if he is apprehensive about alienatating the crowd. Then again, I've seen him in various matches ask the chair umpire to quiet the crowd (remeber he did that during that great US Open match vs. Stepanek). Even today - not a big deal - but that 5-all point in the first set when Haas kind of playfully tapped the ball over Djoker just looked unsettled by that.

I just got the sense that Haas wanted it more, that he was willing to work a little bit harder, take a little more risk and push things a little bit harder. It's like the Aussies - especially Emerson and Stolle - used to always say "you gotta bleed a little bit out there to win a major..." not literally shed blood but you've gotta be really willing to invest it all into the match. And I may just be mis-reading him but I felt like Djoker was just a little too restrained at key moments (though he really went for that fh int he breaker and slapped it long).

The guy is a talent, no question, and he's so young and obviously still developing. A lot of the great players often say one of the toughest things in tennis is to find a way to win when you're not playing at your absolute best and I think that's still a part of the game Djoker has to develop more consistently. There's too much a sense of him acquiescing: "he was too good today..." or "it just wasn't my day today..." Well you want to win a major you've got to find a way to make it your day even when you're not at peak form. That's another reason why Fed, Nadal, Serena, etc. are so special - they find a way to get through even when they don't have the A game whereas a guy like Safin, also a tremendous talent, and at times Djoker, do not always find a way to fight through.

Re: Djoko is out

Scoop — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:40:10 GMT

Remember Patrick McEnroe used to say on ESPN coomentating matches early 2000s late 90s that Haas should go to the net more, but his volleys were inconsistent then so he didn't go forward much and when he did he seemed to muff the volleys which kept him back. Now he's making some nifty volleys, he has no fear of coming forward, he has become the complete player and he is going to be dangerous in the SF.

Djokovic when he gets it in his head the other player is playing excellent and coming up big in the crunch like Haas did today, down 15-40 at 5-5 in the first, the second set TB, it was just too good by Tomy Haas, when that happens Djok tends to fold up. But hey it happens to everyone, tough match, tough opponent.

It's almost like Djok ovic is playing too nice, trying to be too sporty, to win over the crowds or something. He doesn't show the psycho eyes and the adrenaline anymore. If the guy plays like a scoundrel like Nastase or the fiery young Hewitt, or if he plays like Edberg or Rafter, he gets stick either way. The guy can't win.

Re: Djoko is out

RP — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:20:01 GMT

It's true that DJoker took the defeat well and credited Haas - offered no excuses. I mean in terms of his actual tactics and game style he employed it showed me little attempt to adjust to what Haas was doing.

It's like he recognizes Haas is hurting him with the volley then change up your return game. Alter your return position to show Haas a different look, hit the return a little flatter to try to get it at his feet rather than than the topspin that sits right up in Haas' strike zone, come to net yourself a bit more to try to take the net away and pressure Haas.

In short, play the game, adjust, make some changes. I saw little attempt from Djoker to adjust to what Haas threw at him. Was also a bit surprised he didn't seem to realize - or adapt - to the fact Haas was really hurting him with the bh down the line. Granted, that's just a superior shot from Haas - he has a beautiful bh -but you would thikn Djoker would recognize that at some point. I do credit Djoker though for saying straight out: Haas outplayed him and thoroughly deserved the win.

But you're right: all credit to Haas, who played very well. Even when he got tight and blew that game serving at 6-5 and then was down the three set points, he didn't lose it. He kept fightting. Ultimately, Haas took more risk and actively tried to win the points rather than waiting for errors and that's my gripe with DJoker's game that at times he just gets to passive, just tries to play one more ball back and oesn't make full use of his game. He showed more more aggression and variety playing World No. 1 Nadal on clay in Madrid then he did playing 24th-seeded Haas on grass at Wimbledon. Just did not see Djoker make adjustments, but then again when he lost that second set that was obviously huge. But I do agree Haas has played well - 10 straight wins on grass - and that victory over Cilic was hard fought, saved the two match points. When Haas is on he's really fun to watch as he makes full use of his variety.

Still, I don't see Fed losing to him even though Haas could have upset him in Paris I just think Fed is too sharp right now and while Haas has given Fed some tremendous battles (Remember that Australian Open match years ago) Fed is still 9-2 vs. him for a reason and that is he does everything a little bit better and he's quicker to the ball. I don't discount Haas' chances at all, but definitely favor Fed.

Re: Djoko is out

mal1219 — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:12:15 GMT

Accepting that Haas is playing better in his actions on the court I like, accepting that Haas is playing better in his own tennis I dont understand and I think this is also a form of quitting.

Agreed on Haas, he is playing well. Good to see him back where he belongs. Still I believe Federer will edge Haas out in 3 or 4 sets.

Hewitt v. Roddick is turning out be a nice match. Into the fifth set! Murray must be laughing right now, finishing before they start and having them play until late in the evening.

Re: Djoko is out

Scoop — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:14:00 GMT

Haas is playing FANTASTIC tennis at the moment. He is sharp and hitting the ball clean. At the end of Cilic match he came out hitting the ball perfectly so clean, he is definitely in the zone now, playing probably the best tennis of his life, and we are talking about a former world #2. Haas is definitely capable of shocking Federer here, if he can continue to play his best ever, and if he can raise it. Federer is flying and is as quick as ever it will not be easy, but Haas is dangerous right now very VERY dangerous.

You have to really credit the guy's heart to get this kind of roll going so late in his career, after so many unfortunate setbacks. It's a great thing to see, he is playing beautiful, he has a ton of experience and he is putting it all together right now and you have to appreciate it. Shoulder looks full strength, everything looks great with Haas, hopefully he won't buckle under the pressure of SF stage, if he doesn't we will see a classic duel.

I don't fault Djokovic, he knew Haas is playing phenomenal, and there's nothing you can do really. Djokvoic is playing well but it's like deep down he knows he can't beat the guy and he takes it like a man, doesn't fake no injuries or use timeouts, Djokovic showed class today. But people wanted him to do something unsporty? Throw his racquet. Use a timeout? Then they villify the guy. I don't understand. Haas kept raising his game in the crunch and Djokovic just accepted it. Proud of the Djokovic, he'll have his day, be sure of that, it just wasn't today.

Re: Djoko is out

tommyboy — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:13:01 GMT

I am surprised that Djokovic choked against a player with a bad shoulder in Haas, who is likely to double-fault under pressure, did so today, though managed to recover. Djokovic should only kick himself for a wasted opportunity. I am glad I did not watch this match, but I followed the scores periodically on the IBM scoreboard. I already consider Haas heartless, but Djokovic has clinched this label this year further losing today after coming through an easy draw. I am not a fan, and grateful that I am not. I just can not understand what his fans see in him. I acknowledge that Haas is a better athlete than Djoker, who lacks natural footspeed to win today's match or any pivotal match at Wimbledon. But still Djoker should kick himself for losing to a player who is nine years older, with a bum shoulder.

Murray is looking like he is going to win his match with Ferrero. An excellent run so far at Wimbledon: to the semis. I favor him against Hewitt or Roddick. If he plays Roddick, I have to state that it would be a third different playing style he would face in a row: a topspin baseliner in Wawrinka, a speed demon in Ferrero, and then a power server in Roddick. If he can overcome all these different playing styles in reaching the finals, then it would be the kind of versatility needed to compete with Federer in the finals.

Federer must have returned in a super-human manner today if he straight-setted Karlovic, and broke him twice. Without watching it, I am sure that Federer also served very well, and hit a ton of forehand winners. Karlovic has no racket-head speed to hit groundstroke winners. Federer only exposed what a one-trick pony Karlovic actually is. He should win his match against Haas on Friday.

It actually can be a Murray/Federer final after all at Wimbledon.

Re: Djoko is out

RP — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:42:10 GMT

When Haas keeps his head together and is making his first serve (serving at 6-5 int he second set and through the early stages of the breaker he couldn't buy a first serve), he is a lot of fun to watch because the guy - even at 31 - still moves so fluidly and he volleys so effectively. His entire game seems to lift when he's actively seeking to move forward. That down the line backhand he hit int he breaker at 5-6 was a thing of beauty and so gutsy too.

Agreed on Djoker: I saw no urgency from the guy. He just looked a little too complacent out there as if he was just waiting for Haas to crack and give it to him. That forehand he overhit was so costly - the guy could have just tapped the ball over the net and he wins the point. Just looked like he got unsettled when Haas guessed right and moved to the spot. Djoker is so talented, definitely do not write him off, but Murray has already passed ihm and though Del Po has so many points to defend this summer he could pass him as well. Djoker had a tremendous stretch from IW through Madrid but he's got to show more fire in the majors. He's too accepting on the court int he loss to Kohlschreiber and today's loss. Haas outplayed him and totally deserved it, but disappointed (not surprised just disappointed) Djoker did not show more fire out there. I think Djoker is more athletically gifted than both Roddick and Hewitt, but both Roddick and Hewitt compete better and more consistently than Djoker does, IMO.

Great run for Haas, but the way Federer is playing, he's going to the final (despite Redhead's proclamations :). Fed anticipates so well and he's unfazed by pace. I don't know if it was Red or TB who said Fed looks slower, but I really don't see that these last two tournaments. I would agree he looked to be lunging at times (on the fh side) during IW and Miami, but he has been moving beautifully in Paris and in London.